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"I personally do not believe that such a thing exists; straight people are straight, asexual people are asexual"

Just because you don't believe they exist doesn't mean they don't. My best friend is straight as an arrow. She enjoys dating men and being involved with them. However, is also asexual, in that she has no interest in having sex with them. I assure SHE EXISTS. And she is not a liar. She also wouldn't dream of claiming to be part of the glbt community, because she's not queer. She does, however, spend time with other asexuals.

Queer asexuals are very welcome in queer spaces. And that's the point you kept missing in the other post. But considering you don't think such people exist, I'm not surprised that you just don't get it. Until you realize that these people DO EXIST you probably never will.

But is the thing that mainly defines her life experiences her asexuality or her "straight-ness"? (Sorry for the akward word choice.)

I believe/know that very heteroromantic people like your friend exist and I know that there's this very strong and heated debate on whether they could be called "queer" or not.

I don't want to try to rekindle those flames at all, but as an aromantic asexual, I'm kind of wondering whether, apart from suppression and defamation (that, we can all agree, asexuals don't get as much as erasure and ridicule), it could also be an asexual's experiences which might decide whether he/she/ze would be seen as "queer".

In my daily work I often experience the feeling of "otherness". I'm a teacher, and I've recently started teaching sex-ed to my students. Something that gave me a bit of a headache beforehand was that, beyond the biological "how does this work" stuff, sex-ed also involves simple human-interaction-stuff, like "falling in love", "having a crush", "being (sexually) interested in someone" - and I simply have no idea what any of that truly feels like. So I'm talking to my students about something that a lot of them know from their own experiences, but I don't, which feels rather strange. (Not unmanageable in any way, but simply strange in the "yeah, I really am different" way.)
Another thing I'm often confronted with is students, and occasionally other teachers, asking about my marital status / whether I have a boyfriend / etc. I'm "out" as an asexual to my closest colleagues (which was met with friendly acceptance, but not really any kind of true belief, btw), but whenever I get confronted with these kinds of questions, I have to make the decision whether to lie, come out as asexual (with all the accompanying explanations) or evade the question somehow - a situation which I think a lot of queer people are very familiar with.
(And yes, my students will ask those questions, and no, because of the kind of students I work with, simply telling them that it's not their business is not an option.)

My asexuality defines me as "other" in these situations, and I have to admit, I often feel more kinship with people from the queer community than I feel with a lot of heteronormative straight people.

I'm not going to force my way into somewhere I'm not wanted, but I have to admit: I'd like to be part of a bigger group that also shares these feeling of being "othered".

i love the worst possible consequence you could think of is that you might have to explain things to people, truly that experience is totes equivalent to queer oppression

also what the hell kind of school do you work at

Does it really matter? She took a lot a shit from guys because she wasn't interested in sleeping with them. Eventually she found some asexual guys who didn't mind not sleeping with her.

She's hetero-romantic, she is not queer! PERIOD. End of sententence.

And that is the problem with straight asexuals co-opting lbgt spaces and pride events. Queer asexuals are very welcome at lbgt spaces and pride events because those spaces and events are about being queer.

If the asexual community wants to have their own spaces, then go out and create them. Then they can have straight, lgbt, all of the above, and non of the above asexuals participate. And those spaces and events will be about being asexual.

Just don't co-opt our spaces/events and claim them for your (general your) own, because it's not okay for straight asexuals (or any straight group of people) to co-opt the lgbt spaces/events as their own.

And that was the point that was trying to made, and kept being ignored in the comments of the other post.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
"It may not be an active oppression"


We don't have any spaces for ourselves. We are unable to carve out any social niches, except in the corners where nobody else is standing.

Using your numbers, that would mean that in a town of 50,000 people, around 500 would be asexual. I find it hard to believe that a group that size would be completely incapable of creating a meetup of some sort without outside help from other groups. Obviously, planning a large scale event would be difficult, but I don't buy suggestion that those numbers render you incapable of creating any sort of space at all for yourselves.

Actually that is an average across many different countries, so in a town of fifty thousand there might be six people openly asexual who are willing to declare it. As I recall, the first Florida asexuality meet have six or seven people in total. In the entirety of Florida.

well, that might mean an unwillingness to declare it or it might just mean that there are a lot of people who don't see the need to attend a meeting about asexuality (there are plenty of openly lgbt people who have never been an organizational meeting too).

and fwiw, I think the 1 in 10 number you site for the queer community has been disputed for quite some time now. doing a quick google, I'm seeing estimates in the US ranging from 3-5% of the population

Oh lord so now we are erasing queer asexuals so tht u can feel oppressed like just stop. The only asexuals that belong in queer spaces are u know the queer ones /end

'I am not a straight person, nor am I "straight asexual". I personally do not believe that such a thing exists; straight people are straight, asexual people are asexual. Heteroromantic asexual people are still predominately asexual.'

Ok, I do get what you're saying here. You don't identify as straight because it's a term that has the connotation that there is sexual attraction involved, same as gay and lesbian have those connotations. Fine. But if you don't feel any kind of even platonic attraction to a gender, you're an aromantic asexual. You are one type of asexual. You don't get to decide that asexual is a blanket term and heteroromantic or homoromantic aces don't exist.

You also must accept that if you're a heteroromantic asexual, you're just not going to be welcomed into queer spaces on the basis that you're hetero. You are part of the group that knowingly or unknowingly causes LGBT people so much strife. How could you expect a welcome? Individual LGBT groups may welcome you, or tolerate you, but you just can't assume that the movement as a whole should let you in.

Asexual 'oppression' simply does not rate against queer oppression. I'm asexual, I've experienced self-loathing and depression and confusion and all that nasty shit purely because I'm asexual and didn't understand why I was this way, why was I so weird, I must be ill because other people say it's not normal.. and yes, it's horrible. Really awful. But people knowing I'm asexual will never really be a threat to my livelihood, my safety. But if they also knew I was queer (as in, I'm homoromantic).. that's when actual oppression becomes an issue.

To me, the worst that asexual people have it is the fact that we're so unknown, that it isn't known as a valid sexuality. But that's our job to improve, the LGBT community already has so much on its plate and much more serious work. All we need to do is make people aware of asexuality and maybe spare a few kids growing up thinking there's something seriously wrong with them, like I did.

Ok, so my experience at gay pride parades has been in Europe, and not America, but at every one of the more than a dozen pride parades I've been in there have been floats and such for GLBT allies. In fact such floats/marchers were encouraged in order to show unity.

I'm unsure why asexuals who consider themselves allies should not be able to march in the same way that other allies are encouraged to march.

Obviously if they represent themselves as queer that could lead to problematic stuff, but simply marching because they want to show support for Pride?

That seems, I don't know, what the parades are supposed to be about.

then wouldn't they be marching under the heading of 'allies' rather than needed to announce that they happen to be asexual? There is a difference between marching with an ally group (PFLAG or something like that) or marching under the banner of asexual pride. I think the post that sparked all of this was suggesting the latter.

Yeah, but it just seems like suggesting they march as allies would solve a lot of problems. If they feel like allies and want to march, more power to them. If they want a banner that says "Asexual Allies Of Gay Pride" I don't think it would be any different then the float I saw in France last year that read (In French) "The Farmers Union In Support Of Gay Pride" that had straight dudes proclaiming they were both farmers and Pride allies.

And that's the difference -- being there as an ally is fine. Showing up with the intention of "I'm here for Asexual Pride" because being asexual make me queer, at an LGBT Pride parade is asshattery, because straight asexuals will never be queer.

God, that other post was a mess. I developed an intense dislike for at least half the people participating.

As for my own opinions... no, being asexual in and of itself doesn't make me queer, but it does make me different. Because I'm heteroromantic, I feel like I'm in this weird space between "queer" and "straight." I would love to be able to march as asexual at a pride parade, but I understand that isn't where I belong. I wish there was a place where I belonged.

I'd suggest having our own parades, but "We're here and we don't necessarily want to bang you" doesn't have much of a ring to it.

"We're here and we don't necessarily want to bang you"

NGL... I LOL'd. ;-)

This particular debate topic often bugs me. I'm a hetero romantic ace. I do not perceive myself as 'queer'. On other hand, I do perceive myself as a member of a sexual minority, and one that, as it gains more awareness from the general public, appears to be subjected to growing discrimination and hostility. I've read enough personal accounts of insults, bullying, rejection by family and peer groups, 'othering', being treated as damaged and/or diseased, being harassed, and even threatened with 'corrective rape', to know that is can grow to be a very, very ugly situation for many of my fellow aces. I would hate to think that it would take actual incidence of physical or sexual assault before our problems are finally seen as 'real enough' to warrant assistance from other sexual minorities in achieving the same protection they are currently fighting for. Given that, and the intersectionality of a very large portion of the asexual population, who happen to also be non-hetero and/or non-cisgendered, it would seem that the asexual and queer communities would make for natural allies, but, instead, there's all this animosity.

Look no one is saying asexuals don't get shit cause you do but it is not the same as the oppression that queer ppl face. Most things aces say are discrimination against them come from sexism and gender norms and have nothing to do with the queer movement, and queer ppl are sick and tired of straight people trying to but there opinions and voices in places they do not belong. Pride parades are about celebrating our identities in face of everything that has happened to us and is still happening to us and trying to attach ace issues to them where they frankly don't belong is incredibly frustrating

>>"Look no one is saying asexuals don't get shit cause you do but it is not the same as the oppression that queer ppl face."<<

So the freedom to express our sexuality without fear of discrimination and harm that we want is different from the freedom to express your sexuality without fear of discrimination and harm that you want?

>>"Most things aces say are discrimination against them come from sexism and gender norms and have nothing to do with the queer movement,..."<<

Funny, it seems to me that the hostility that asexuals are beginning to experience in increasing frequency is rooted in the same inherent xenophobia that's led to homophobia. Sure, we haven't quite had enough centuries for ace hate to root itself into multiple aspects of culture, like religion, as homophobia has, but, hey, given how many times I've read of asexuals being told that they are 'denying God's greatest gift' and other such nonsense, I suspect it'll catch up quickly.

It's interesting, though, that you bring up sexism and gender norms because of this...

>>"...queer ppl are sick and tired of straight people trying to but there opinions and voices in places they do not belong."<<

The question I'm going to ask in response to this is "What is straight?" I'm serious. I may be quite hetero, I may be quite cis, but I KNOW I don't quite blend with the hetero-normative crowd. I also know that the reason I don't personally experience any form of ace hate is because I am fortunate enough to live in a community that's generally unconcerned about such things (in other words, safe for queer people, too) and, in what few instances I might encounter a strongly homophobic person, I possess enough 270 lb hairy gorilla privilege to keep me out of trouble. A great many of my fellow aces are not so fortunate.

And, yes, I mentioned homophobia. I'm certain that many might say "Well, just because you might get mistaken for gay doesn't make you queer." However, if I appear 'gay enough' to trigger someone else's homophobia, then am I truly 'hetero-normative'? If I'm not queer enough to be queer, but not straight enough to be straight, then I ask you, where the feck to I 'belong' then? (Keep in mind that, being both hetero and cis-gendered, I'm in a minority within the asexual community, so most asexuals are 'less straight' than I am.)

>>"Pride parades are about celebrating our identities in face of everything that has happened to us and is still happening to us..."<<

... and beginning to happen to us.

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(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
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this is incredibly manipulative.

In the last post, you were saying that people should say "asexual people" instead of "asexuals". Why are you now calling us "asexuals" yourself, you hypocrite?

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